Am I an Idiot – Or Did I Just Miss Something at ePN?
I hate to beat a dead horse – but the eBay Partner Network did something really kinda weird today. They published a blog post with a featured affiliate Chris Hedgecock, but the site they chose to use as an example, although a GREAT Marketing example, contradicts almost every statement they have preached to affiliates since they took the program inhouse in April 2008!
Chris is a smart guy and also owns the Zintext platform which is currently for sale, as posted by Jeremy at Shoemoney.com earlier this week. I’m not trying to do any bad by Chris here, I think his site is friggin awesome and a great example of how to build buzz and do it right, but for ePN to use it as an example of what others should be doing on their own sites? Cmon guys… get it together, this is exactly the opposite of what you have been saying for 18 months!
What makes Chris’ site so good was his marketing… you have been telling every affiliate out there that you want engaged buyers, low clickthrough rate, no pogosticking, and clearly displayed intent so that the people know they are going to ebay to make a purchase. You even make note of the FTC laws requiring it on a recent post in Dec.
I guess the last line really sums it all up… one of the main reasons QCP went into effect was something to do with visitor intent. It was explained as… If the User would have come to eBay anyway, well, thats not a valuable click to us.
The last Q&A:
Q: One tip that you can share with other affiliates about improving their performance on eBay Partner Network?
A: Pre-sell. Get people hyped up about the product you are targeting on eBay then send the click. Either that, or build a tool that helps people use eBay better. It’s always good when you can send someone to eBay via a rover link when they were trying to go there in the first place.
I’m no rocket scientist… but something just doesn’t mesh here. Like I said, great site, but not to backup what you have been telling affiliates to do for the last year or more!
Previously Published Articles You May Like to Read:
- Steve Hartman Says Farewell to eBay Partner Network
- UnOfficial ePN Affiliate Survey – Sound Off Now!
- PepperJam Network Responds to ePN Questions
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I have been doing my part to "Build the Internet" since 1994, when I built my first website! Since then, I have built hundreds of niche websites for myself and many others, focused on design, applications, ecommerce, search optimization and internet marketing.
I know tell me about it, I had EXACTLY the same thoughts as you when I read the post. Like you I don’t want to bash Chris here BUT all that site is in essence is a thin affiliate site which has been well marketed.
I did find the part about selling over 10,000 cars a little steep? That’s 300 cars a month on average!!
It’s nice to know what eBay are looking for, after all it’s not the first highly questionable example they have given.
Well, if you are an idiot, then I’m brain dead, cuz you make perfect sense to me.
I just can’t believe it. I have no problem with this site I think it’s great. I have several just like it that make good money but as you say it is an example that contradicts everything that eBay have said over the last year or so.
Taking an optimistic view perhaps Steve Hartmans departure means a change in policy! Ok so that was a bit too optimistic.
@Ben – 300 cars / month, 80,000 visitors per month, with a 45% click rate to eBay. Thats 36,000 (obviously approx) clicks. Since they used it as an example, one has to assume it is providing good quality visitors. On my end, average sites generated about .22 cents per click.
You do the math!
@Rochelle – I know exactly what you mean!
I have even dusted off my modded copy of BANS that I stowed away! The one KEY thing that Chris REALLY got right, was the marketing of the site! Buzz…
Out of curiosity, I just what my eBay earnings are by site. My highest paying clicks average .16, and these are from my Christmas sites that are HIGHLY focused. Other than increasing the traffic to these sites, therefore sending more people to eBay, I have no idea what more I can do to send targeted traffic to eBay. I’ve stopped trying and am doing my thing (such as I did with the Christmas sites – I made no effort to appeal to the eBay Gods and those are the sites that pay the most, so far). I’m getting a headache!!!
Hi Mark,
I saw your post on the EPN board and did a little digging in the backlinks of the site.
I thought this particular blog post (from what appears to be one of Chris’s blogs) might interest you -
http://www.knofun.com/bans-and-the-webshit-they-produce/
Unbelievable.
It makes me angry. It would seem that you only have to follow Ebay’s rules if you don’t send a lot of traffic.
No mention whatsoever that the ads are for Ebay listings which, if I understand correctly, is a required action under the Ebay terms and conditions.
“All Links and Promotional Content you use must be clearly recognizable as an advertisement for the relevant Participating Sites”
I am fast losing faith with Ebay.
No your aren’t an idiot, you’re righ. That post on ePN Blog is just the effect of having influences and good friends in ePN offices, the rest is bullshit.
@Tina,
You are right. eBay’s TOS do require that eBay links or auctions be indicated as such. I hadn’t looked that the site being used as an example until your comment, but that is the thinnest affiliate site I think I’ve ever seen! The only page with unique content is on the Home page, and there is barely any there.
Plus, as you stated, no where does it indicate that those are eBay auction listings, not even on the Privacy Policy. As far as Privacy Policies go, that’s the worst one, again, I’ve ever seen.
The owner of that site better hope the Google Gods don’t see it, because they are also in violation of Google Adsense TOS…
I have to agree with every ting said here espacially what Rochelle just added.
I’m convinced now – every one working at ePN is a MORON!
The site they profiled is the epitome of what eBay has been screaming “thin affiliate” now for so long. There is not one iota of original content on that site. A 10 year old could set that up in a matter of minutes. You could write goony f’ing goo goo along the top and nobody would ever see it because the page is so full of auctions. And the site is a damn PR4. wtf?? This guy must be one hell of a marketer to get that crap site ranked with PR4.
If that’s the kind of site they want, then I’ll have a hundred of them slapped up tonight and start building some back links and other marketing to appease the Google god.
omg – look at one of his sister sites – http://www.getacheap.tv/
PR3?? huh? There’s absolutely no written content at all. Holy crap.
If I was the CEO of eBay, I’d fire every one of the idiots at ePN and start from scratch. There is something very amiss here.
I have to agree with every thing said here especially what Rochelle just added.
Sorry for the last comment spelling typo’s
Hi Mark,
(follow up to last post, since new comments added)
I don’t think it’s down to EPN ‘stupidity’ at all. I think this is the nature of affiliating with a huge corporation. They will have one rule for one, and another rule for another.
They will lie to the majority, keeping a climate of fear regarding expirations, continually taking their algorithms further inhouse while keeping the masses guessing and speculating and reducing their income with each ‘new system.’
I wonder if they will reply to your thread on the EPN forum, and if they do, I wonder if it will be a ‘canned’ politician’s response that tells us nothing? Or will they selectively ignore ‘difficult’ questions like that one, like they always have?
The truth is – if we let people treat us (and our livelihoods) with this much disrespect, and then continue to rely on them, work for them, put effort into promoting them and follow their constantly changing rules – we deserve everything we get.
They have set their stall out – the message is clear. In their eyes, we are worthless, naive peons.
I’m not quite sure how to verbalize what’s in my head at the moment regarding eBay’s EPN program, but it seems that many of us, but the tone of some comments makes it seem that some people think eBay is conniving and evil, and that those of us who still send traffic to eBay are stupid sheep (please don’t yell at me – I know that these terms have not actually said).
There is no doubt in my mind that eBay has done wrong to their affiliates, but that follows their previous record of treating their sellers poorly. No surprises there to me.
I also don’t think there is a conspiracy within eBay among their employees. I think ExRat came close when he said they are a huge corporation, but I don’t think they are intentionally lying. I think they have just gotten so huge that the left hand no longer knows what the right hand has done, and they are not investing the time needed to figure it out.
It is even possible that the people who answer questions on the eBay EPN forum simply don’t have the knowledge needed to give accurate answers. That may also be why they ignore some of the harder questions. Not out of malice, but out of ignorance.
Please know that I’m not defending eBay. It’s just that I don’t believe they are an evil corporation out to “stick it” to people like us. They grew too big, too fast. Simple as that.
To me, continuing to do business with eBay doesn’t make us stupid, moronic, or whatever else we could be called. Rather, I think most of us continue to send traffic to eBay knowing that we will no longer get much back in return.
That’s the case for me. I’m no longer building eBay sites, such as BANS. Rather, what I’m doing on my new sites is adding just a single link that says something like, “Click here to see the [add niche topic here] available on eBay.” That’s it. My link is marked as an eBay link, plus I’ve mentioned eBay in my Privacy Policy and Disclaimer pages.
So now, I am no longer building sites just for eBay. The affiliate current changed, and instead of drowning, I chose to alter my strategy to survive the ever-changing current that is affiliate marketing.
Now, I’m offering eBay as an option to visitors, but also offering visitors the option to go to other sites (such as Amazon) for the same items. I don’t think I’m getting what I deserve for doing so. No, instead, I am willing to accept .16 a click by sticking a single link on my sites.
I fear I haven’t managed to get my thoughts across as I wanted to, but, basically, I don’t think we are idiots for still including eBay links and auctions.
Rochelle….I agree 100%. I truly think 90% of EPNs issue isn’t that they intend to be evil, just that they aren’t that well run or competent. I have worked at Director level in a Fortune 500 for many years, and I’ve seen “executives” come and go. Some of them have a brain in their head and some of them went to the right school.
Steve and the EPN team…smack of being relatively new at running something, poor communication skills and poor conflict resolution skills. They tailor their policies to target the 2% of affiliates that are cheaters but punish the 98% of affiliate who are honest and trying to send them quality traffic.
It’s dumb, but a lot of companies do it. You see retailers locking products up all the time behind cases and in cages etc. It makes it inconvenient for the honest shoppers but they are bent on reducing the fraud, all the while not realizing that eventually the honest people will go somewhere else where they aren’t treated like crooks.
I still build Ebay sites, but Amazon goes primary. Amazon treats affiliates like team members and consistently tries to develop new products and new ways to help affiliates succeed. They “get it” and I would expect that if you were to compare the resumes of the two teams, that you would quickly see why.
My 2 cents…but I don’t think you’re crazy at all. Quite frankly EPN has turned reasonably lucrative for me again. Once I pulled a bunch of sites off, my EPC more than doubled.
Weird.
I was DONE with Ebay a year ago. Glad to hear that some are still making it work but I got tired of pleasing them. Amazon is getting all of my attention now.
Thank you for always keeping us up to date!
“…Amazon treats affiliates like team members and consistently tries to develop new products and new ways to help affiliates succeed…”
As a ePN affiliate I wish I could say the same about ePN…
@Nicheman…so change to Amazon.
I moved a bunch of stores from EPN to Amazon…took me about 2 weeks of work but it’s been very profitable.
@Bill,
Agreed! I love the versatility available as an Amazon affiliate. They have some truly amazing tools. Plus, the more you sell, the higher your affiliate earnings. That may not mean much if you just have one or two sites promoting Amazon products, but if you have a lot of sites, and continue to build more, it’s pretty easy to get to the higher commission percentages each month.
Rochelle
@Bill – I’d love to Bill, but I can’t for two reasons. I work with used cars (eBay Motors) and I’m in North Carolina. I used to have my Amazon Affiliated account but they closed it after that taxes issue. Nothing I can’t do.
@Nicheman – What part of NC are you in? I’m in the Charlotte area myself! Also – for car stuff, check places like CoPart.com, and other auto sites that are starting to get big.
Mark
Don’t let NC stop you….you’re just not creative enough if you are letting that stop you.
Also because you are a used car guy today, doesn’t mean you have to be a used car guy tomorrow. Build new sites…..or continue to be subject to whatever EPN chooses to do.
It’s kind of like if you don’t vote, then you don’t get to complain.
@Bill – @Mark Hansen – I live in Raleigh and Charlotte, both cities. I just checked CoPart.com, I had no idea about this company, do you know if they have a program affiliates for webmasters in the automotive area?. I couldn’t find a link or something.
I’d like to have another option to make money with automotive websites different from ePN.
@Bill – Bill, I’m not stopped, actually I’m doing very well. I’m just complaining about ePN. Since they changed to QPC, those working with eBay Motors are not being benefited in the same way like under old system.
Just an example: In last month (december) one of my sites sold more than 100 cars. More than 50k in GMB($). My revenue was like 4% of this. In september, the last month under old system I just had to sell 50 cars to get the same revenue.
And this is the only one reason why I said I wish ePN treats us as Amazon or Google do with their affiliates, always looking for to help them to make more revenue and keep them motivated. After QPC some of us lost some motivation with ePN. I have listened that % comissions in Amazon are between 10 and 15%… that’s fear.
Amazon commissions are not even close to 15% but rather more like somewhere between 4 and 8.5% depending on your volume, the only thing they offer commissions in the 15 to 20% range on is game downloads and Endless products.
The entire subject of ePN simply bums me out so I don’t even go there unless its absolutely necessary.
The only good to come from whats happening is I am learning not to depend on any of the affiliate programs for income. I’m trying to build sites that I can change the monetizing on the fly.
Thanks for pointing how ePN is full of it. Its hard to believe that eBay will be around in 2020.
@ All –
eBay has revised their post, and published a clarification on the blog.
I think I jinxed myself by posting my EPN click information. Since that time, I’ve had nothing but $0.01 clicks!!! (Banging head on computer desk…)
Rochelle
Well, I see that the example site now states that the auctions are from eBay, but the Privacy Policy remains is still not following EPN’s requirements…
Rochelle
You gotta love the way ebay look after their affiliates.
“We believe that there is always room for improvement with any website, and we are working with Chris to optimize his eBay integrations and ensure their compliance with eBay Partner Networks Ts and Cs.”
Somehow I don’t think they would do the same for me if I had a site as bad as that one and they were not flushed with embarrassment after promoting that site.
@Rochelle – Hi Rochelle you may not be alone my January earnings are currently tanking as my EPC has fallen dramatically this month. Very frustrating because my traffic is at record levels but I’m selling less than last year on 50% more visitors.
eBay could have started tweaking the algo but I think it is more symptomatic of the fact that people are buying a lot less via eBay than they used to. Unfortunately eBay continue to do their best to ruin what was a fabulous business model and have allowed the competition to gain a very strong foothold.
The recent changes to Paypal have not helped. In some cases, as a seller, you no longer get paid until the buyer confirms receipt of the goods! How absurd is that.
eBay has done soooooo wrong by their sellers. I used to sell there, but got it before all the insanity started. Honestly, I’m not sure why people still sell there, when there are other places to go now that treat sellers right, instead of as thieves.
What’s strange about my EPN earnings is that nothing has changed. The level of traffic I get is the same, as are the number of clicks. Who knows? I’m not sure it’s worth sending traffic if all I’m going to get is a penny a click… Fortunately, it is easy enough to remove my eBay links, if earnings don’t pick back up.
Why eBay would want to chase away their affiliates (or sellers), I’ll never know, but they are sure doing a good job of it…
Rochelle
Of course they wouldn’t. Is 100% clear that article about Chris Hedgecock and his crappy site is not because him or his website deserves it. That article is only the good thing of having friends/influences working on ePN. ePN sucks.
And to think I pulled down what I deemed to be a “thin” site. It was “fat” by comparison to carsforagrand…… Sigh…….
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