How Much Info Do You Keep in One Basket?
The whole analogy of putting too many eggs into one basket has been hashed hundreds of times! Between people who had ePN accounts terminated last year, to putting too much emphasis on one single website and having it torched by Google, we have run the gamut of putting too much effort into one common denominator. Fortunately for those who have listened… they know all too well.
This message today is slightly different… and gets into a few other common factors I found on the three or four sites of mine that suffered a traffic drop over the last month, the relationship to myself and my Google services accounts!
Never Group More than You’re Willing to Lose Under Any Common Relationship!
As I was digging, I created checklists of common factors, like:
- Hosting Account? (HostGator, DreamHost, Alentus, etc)Â IP Address?
- Registrar? (GoDaddy, Enom, etc) &Â Registrar Account?
- Registered Address? (Home, Personal, Business, PO Box, etc)
- Software Driving System (BANS, WordPress, etc)
- Privacy Policy? FTC Disclosures?
- Contact form? Contact Phone Number?
- Adsense, eBay, or Amazon Listings?
- BackLink Profile? (Blog comments, directories, articles, etc)
- etc…etc… etc
When I checked off the common factors for each site that was affected, I was shocked by the number of common factors that Google knows about me, without even friggin trying! (Time to put on a tinfoil hat if you subscribe)
Back in the day of the wild-wild-west Internet, ie: June 2008, I made a claim that Google had profiled BANS, and was deindexing BANS sites based on the profile alone. Some people around the BANS forums called me nuts… a few others claimed it never happened to them, etc. Â Blah… blah… blah. Where is BANS today?
Separate Your Sites by As Many Factors as You Can!
I explained this same situation to another reader… and not surprisingly, I was able to graph almost EVERY ONE of my published websites using free tools within 5 minutes, including those that have private registration! I am here to tell you, if a novice like myself can do this, I can only imagine what the heads-full-of-knowledge at Google can do!
- The Affected Sites used a Common Registrar (GoDaddy)
- The sites were on the Same Registrar account (GoDaddy Account #)
- The sites were in same Google Webmaster Tools account (Related by email address)
- The sites had used a common Adsense account (Related by email address)
- The sites had same Analytics account (Related by email address)
Just to exemplify this point… I have two sites that are Almost Identical with exception to the [mykeywordshere] section of the sites. I’m not kidding…
- Both domains are +4 years old and have grown equally over the course of time
- Both domains registered within the same week.
- Both domains are 7 letters and share 6 of the same letters!
- Registered at different registrars (One GoDaddy, Other Netsol)
- Different Webmaster Tools and Google Profile Accounts
- Almost identical number of pages
- IDENTICAL WordPress theme
- Same HostGator Account
- Site 1 – is about Blue Widgets
- Site 2 – is about Green Widgets
- Both are in Equal Demand
When I say these sites are like twin-sisters… they are literally almost identical! The ONLY difference is in the keyword targets in the content, monetization strategy and ownership details.
- Site 1, shares the same Adsense account, WMT, Analytics, and GoDaddy Account as those that suffered.
- Site 2, shares none of the same info with the affected sites!
The common factors are a bit hard to ignore…
Google services, Domain Registration, and A Specific Account.
The question is… Do You Think Google would use Domain Registrar information, Adsense account, Webmaster Tools and Analytics to build a profile about a website owner? Then incorporate that data into the new MayDay Algorithm change?
Wouldn’t we be foolish naive to think otherwise?
Previously Published Articles You May Like to Read:
- Don’t Use Adsense on BANS Sites
- Why Does Google Deindex a BANS Website?
- Mayday Solution #2 – Check Your Backlink Strategy!
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I have been doing my part to "Build the Internet" since 1994, when I built my first website! Since then, I have built hundreds of niche websites for myself and many others, focused on design, applications, ecommerce, search optimization and internet marketing.
Well
I have had entire Bans sites crashed to the floor by google, and I have come to the following conclusion.
Google is entirely evil, I mean really… Who says “trust me, I am not lying” and is not a liar.
Google will let you be if you play in their backyard.. with their ball with the understanding that as long as you follow the rules of Googleball(calvinball). They will let you make money. Otherwise you are toast.
Calvinball
Other kids’ games are all such a bore!
They’ve gotta have rules and they gotta keep score!
Calvinball is better by far!
It’s never the same! It’s always bizarre!
You don’t need a team or a referee!
You know that it’s great, ’cause it’s named after me!
—The Calvinball theme song[46]
Mark-
I am curious, I can understand Google being able to find information and tie it to an individual when it comes to the same AdSense, Analytics, WMT, and a number of other things. But it surprised me to read that an individuals GoDaddy account number might be public knowledge. I try to keep as many things separate as I can (wearing my tinfoil hat) but how would Google be able to know your account number? Is there anywhere else I can find information on that?
Since I saw 90% of my sites (50+ sites) getting their ranking drops from page 1 to page 10+ I have tried to understand the new ranking factors.
When I tried to look at my sites and try to understand what all that dropped had in common I couldn’t come to any conclusion.
I started to look at what is ranking now and what type of linking they all had.
My conclusion is somewhat very simplistic but as we all now often the most simple theory is the correct one.
What I think now after my researches is that simply Google that was given a lot of importance to the keyword in the domain name, has stopped doing so.
I’m talking about the update that what executed on the 1 to 3 of June.
This also comes after a discussion between mr. cuttts and the mozers about the weight the domain name is carrying and after a lot of “gurus”, bloggers and ebook writers where shouting all around the net that this is the way to reach 1st page.
I think that to get there all you need now is enough good and many links to beat the competition.
That’s of course my 0.02$ and would love to look for a proof other than that.
Scary isn’t it. And yes I believe they use all that information and more.
@Bruce – CalvinBall – funny, but very easy to fathom!
@Matt – Google is a domain registrar and they own a patent that allows them to extract domain owner info and use it as part of their algo.
I don’t know that they can see your acct ##, but your email address would be enough, since you can only have one account tied to one email addy.
So… GoogBot finds site, tells algo to get WHOIS, compares WHOIS email to other WHOIS info in the index.
@f15tuk – I looked at the keyword domain issue as well, and found just as many with no June 2nd effect as well.
Now… I’m not saying it makes no difference, just that in my case, it made no difference, and in several sites I checked with 100% keyword domains, they weren’t affected either.
@Mike – VERY!
Google knows all and uses it all. They have for years to protect their revenue, advertisors, reputation. Go after large revenue keywords and ideas. Mass developement of small revenue based sites will not work, the time to create these sites will never catch up to the time involved even if just a few hours. Any affiliate program or search engine will ruin your network over night. I have had it happen many times over, and for years now. WP has many stats plugins ect so there is no reason to use google analytics and such, the less they can track the better. Pump a site to make some revenue and do not look back when a decent offer comes in for the domain… sell sell sell and start again.
getting listed on the front page of any search engine is not to hard for one or two keywords or phrases, but you need many listings to make a nice income, that’s time consuming. You need to weigh the time spent versus the potential. Something easily shippable for high dollars is much better than hundreds of sales for a cheap item, but you yourself have written about that many times. Always a pleasure to read what you write.
Selling your soul to Google / Devil is tricky for sure. I had to give up worrying about it. They already have me because I sold my soul long ago.
I cant really think of any way to change the way to deal with them.
The only thing that will stop them from pushing small fry’s like me around is to continuously write our states attorney general.
I know people think I’m nuts, but they are becoming a monopoly of something (The Internet) that was created with our tax dollars.
Google owns their index, but it has become a public utility and needs to be held accountable. They have the power to kill your business with one key stroke and that is just wrong.
In New Hampshire last week a disabled woman’s power was shut off and she died because the oxygen was on a electric pump. I feel like that poor lady sometimes with these guys.
Funny thing is I have some bans sites that where de-indexed long ago that make good money with adsense through Yahoo and Bing traffic. Why would they see that users like these sites a include them in beyond me.
Rant over!
Thanks for the great article again Mark
@Greg – Definitely agree that the effort for hundreds of small sites is nothing more than swapping a full time job for a different full time job with less security.
Also agree about the higher dollar items. Its much easier to help the sale of 5 big tickets, than it is of 500 small tickets for the same earnings!
Thanks for the comment Greg.
Mark
@Bill G – Agree about the Utility thing for sure!
There are a few things you can do to minimize the loss Bill…
- Separate Registrar Accounts (With different email)
- Separate hosting accounts for top performing sites (Old news)
- Separate Google accounts for single websites (Reg the site as a business, get a tax-id and go)
All I am suggesting above is that putting it all into ONE ACCOUNT may be harmful.
Try it next time you build, may or may not make a difference, but worth the try for sure!
Question I would have is how to go about maintaining many different “buckets” of sites?
So much of this information ties back to name, address, phone number, etc.
Do you go get a bunch of different PO boxes, or UPS Store boxes that would allow you to have an address and a suite number?
I’ve got a home phone and a cell phone, but those numbers are both registered back to my name. I don’t think my Google Voice numbers would be a good option, considering who owns Google Voice.
I don’t think false information would be a good idea for domain registrations, etc.
Any recommendations on how to have different identities for these site groups, while still making use of valid registration information?
While on the subject of conspiracy theorization, I’ve always wondered about the use of the Google Toolbar, and the tracking of client IP address information through things like Google Analytics. Everything I do is source from my ISP IP addr, and even with multiple analytics accounts, couldn’t Google essentially see my source address via analytics hitting all of my WordPress WPADMIN dirs for the respective sites?
It seems that the use of any Google services could open the door to allow Big Brother to see your hand.
It seems like they have a vantage point that makes it very difficult to truely shield yourself.
Great post.
I agree with all of you. Google is getting to big for it’s britches. For this reason, I will not get an Android Phone, nor will I get an Apple iPhone.
I use a custom WhoIs for each domain that has a live site. Trying to treat each as it’s on entity or niche business. Rarely do I use Google Webmasters Tools or Analytics.
I use Bing and Yahoo Search, they pull more relevant searches.
I see a bunch of spammy sites on the first page of Google and wonder why I can’t get on the first page.
Most of my traffic is from PPC, close to the 60-70% mark – and it’s not from Google.
Yea, BANS still rocks, I just haven’t created any new sites with it because it lacks flexibility.
All I can do is keep doing what I do and just keep them in my rear view mirror.
@Greg M – I have a PO box Greg, but as far as the separation of info goes at the domain registrar, I use the domain name as the business name and owner name, a home or business phone line, and separate email addresses.
The Google toolbar is how I think G gets MOST of its info. I recently read a Webmaster Help topic where one of the Bionic Forum Members (Those who GooG think are important and we should listen to) mentioned that a single difference from what GBot sees, to what the GooG Toolbar sees, can automatically dispatch a manual review of a site from the GooG team of 10,000 manual reviewers.
Like @Greg has stated above, GooG has been very open that they will use ALL INFORMATION they can, to provide the best results and protect the interest their site visitors.
I would simply recommend minimizing as much as possible, and make that tracking harder! Kinda like the 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon, in reverse!
- If you use firefox, install a proxy plugin like “GoogleSharing.net” that anonomizes all info sent to and from GooG servers.
M
@Mark Hansen – Time to uninstall Google Toolbar. Only used it to see if a site had any PR anyways.
Mark,
Hmm… This sounds familiar ;)
If I am creating new GoDaddy accounts for every site I now purchase, do I still need to worry? Or, should I mix it up by using a variety of registrars (I don’t even know any others)?
Also, did I understand your answer above about using names when registering that you will use the domain name as your name, in addition to using it as business name?
In other words, a new purchase would look like:
First Name = The Niche Store
Last Name = Builder
Business Name = TheNicheStoreBuilder.com
Address = PO Box ….
Rochelle
I agree with Mark, they can use those information to track.
Best is to stop using most of the services Google offer:
Google Analytics (Use Statcounter, Clicky or any other)
Adwords (Use until you get banned and then start using other alternatives)
Toolbar (use no toolbar at all)
Gmail (Use yahoo or your own domain name’s email)
Buzz [Heard they are getting greedy and coming up with GoogleMe Social Network] – (Use Facebook instead, ie if you must go social).
Same goes for their other services – They already have too much information about people/businesses and use it against them at will.
Stick to only monetizing your site with them (Adsense) and do not place much importance on it; knowing that if a GoogleHead becomes jealous of what you earn as an individual – can easily decide to terminate your account.
I also believe that setting Google as homepage does not help matters, who knows what those cookies track once you fire up your browser.
Just my 2c…
As we talk, I was watching CNBC and they were discussing how monopolies fall – from an investment perspective. Just like IBM and Microsoft have become stagnant. They start to fall when interventions from governments take hold. Even big companies rely too much on Google.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/38055381
@Sean – Gorg is making news headlines a LOT lately. From the IP/Login/eMail sniffing of the Gorgle Maps car, to privacy, to foreign Gov’s demanding information about adwords and adsense…
They ARE a utility and the keeper of MOUNTAINS of our online data.
They should have just stuck to building the best search engine…
I am curious regarding your post here. You are referencing common factors which you have identified as potentially being in direct relation the the drop in SERP rankings for some sites of yours.
My question is what does it matter if you own multiple sites which are monetized or affiliate sites? There is nothing wrong with individuals owning multiple affiliate sites. There is nothing wrong with the sites having decent SERP rankings either.
What seems to be missing here is why the tying together of sites is an issue.
Are you concerned about this because you are using your own sites to backlink one another? Are you concerned about this because you are building duplicate content sites “I have two sites that are Almost Identical with exception to the [mykeywordshere] section of the sites. I’m not kidding”?
I am just curious why the tying trackability of ownership is an issue to the fallout in your SERPs? If no black/grey hat techniques are being implemented. Obvously the dup content and the interlinking is a bit on the grey side, not to say you are doing this. But why to connection to a drop in SERPs merely because you have multiple affiliate sites is the essence of my question.
@Tyrelle – Welcome in Tyrelle…
My point in this article is that one of the few common factors I found, was myself, or information related to me. (Domain name registrar, Adsense account, WMT account, Analytics, etc)
The sites of mine that were effected were all 100% unique content, written by me and my own knowledge and spin of the general markets they were in. 1 of the sites was less than 3 months old and I (ie: Me) was the ONLY common factor. Other sites under separate owner accounts, GWT etc, were not affected.
I agree completely about nothing being wrong with one person or business owning several sites… but if they ever get anything questioned on any site, the Google manual reviewers only need to look at every other related site you own (GWT, Adsense Properties, Analytics properties, Common Registrar ownership, etc) to burn the entire network to the ground, on the “Opinion” of the manual reviewer.
If you ever read the Google Webmaster Bionic posters comments at the google webmaster help forums.. you know that ANYTHING with an affiliate or adsense link, instantly gets looked at differently, in a much more critical scope.
Mark
It is indeed a slipery slope so to speak, with a huge dose of always questioning one’s own actions. I now understand your point and vulnerability definitely adds to the reality of the way things are. I believe that some decent separation is in order even for the honest affiliates due to these vulnerabilities. This is to avoid the potential of loosing all those eggs we spend so much time on. Definitely food for thought.
@Tyrelle – Could you please tell how your two almost identical sites do in the search engines? Good or bad?
Does both of them rank well in their niches?
@Mark – Please do you know if this plugin is okay to use and if something like that works well for dupe content? – goscript.net/featured-articles/wordpress-uniquefier-plugin.html
That was actually a quote from the post. I actually do not use duplicate content for content on my sites at all. I use only original material, custom templates etc. This is by far more work, and yet the reality is that duplicate content does not necessarily mean anything negative in a ton of instances out there. I just feel that it serves my approach better.
As far as this post refers to keeping all of one’s sites not in one traceable end point, I would venture to say that it would be a really good reason for big G to zap a bunch of dupe content sites that one entity owned if a manual review were to discover them. This is yet another reason why I put in the extra effort to use only original content.
@Richie – Been there and tried it (And another one) last year Richie…
Does it work to make your content unique? Yes.
Is it something you want to do? Probably Not!
In effect, you would be showing search engines one thing (The uniquifier java hexidecimal code) and users another thing (The actual page content) which is probably the number #1 bad thing for search engines.
[...] way to remove them, and others swear its just a case of being paranoid or wearing a tin-foil hat (I have one of those!) and is a waste of time.So the question is… Can a Plugin leave a trail that may hurt you? (I [...]
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How Much Info Do You Keep in One Basket?